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 | Posted On: 28/01/2010 At: 03:34:08 |
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Firstly id like to say hi to everyone in my first post here 
Ive been thinking of getting into the RC scene for some time now but since there is a lot of information to absorb before I can even think of getting my first plane I was wondering if any of you professionals would be kind enough to answer a few questions I have.
Ive never actually flown an rc airplane before (although I will be using a flight simulator before I attempt to), plenty people ive seen on various forums suggest "trainer" planes but then some people comment on thier lack of controls/flight ability which hinders learning in the first place.
Also I will try and find a local club/group that operate in the area but ive not managed to track down any as of yet so for now ill have to assume I will be teaching myself.
Therefore my first question is:
Could anyone suggest some decent (and forgiving) rc planes to look at as being my first plane (I would prefer to build from scratch) I was thinking maybe a 3 or 4 channel system.
Which brings me to my second question:
Currently I dont have very deep pockets so my intial budget is around £100, and im not sure that will be enough for a semi decent flyer, but of course this is why im asking you people :)
My third question:
If there is a recommended setup within my budget I would be interested in knowing what that is, instead of me buying parts which may ultimately be a waste of money, and as far as looks go im not to fussed right now as long as it fits my criteria above.
so to recap:
A beginner scratch built (probably foam) plane with either the full electric kit or a list of recommended kit for under £100 (if its possible) (instructions would be nice or at least somewhere I can find a guide that suits my pocket/experience)
You might be wondering why I have not been able to come up with this information myself, and well the answer is that I have been reading up on this idea for about 2 weeks and because of conflicting advice and trepidation of making purchasing mistakes ive not gone through with buying anything yet incase a better idea is suggested.
Any information will be gladly recieved and many thanks in advance.
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welcome to the forum.
its great to see new people especialy with an interest in balsa bashing (its a blacke art i have yet to master)
i am certian that there are a few out there (on the forum) who are eagerly waiting to share there knowlage.
Steve H
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| "I reject your reality & Substitute my own" |
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Awh, I thought you want a balsa kit... take a look at www.mountainmodels.com then look up the Dandy or Dandy Sport. You can also download their manuals which are brilliant. Something along those lines would be suitable for a beginner.
As for foam the Mulitplex kits have good instructions, the likes of the Easy Star or Twinstar would be suitable.
Before we can answer what gear, we need to know what model. For a full setup to include a proper transmitter and battery charger you would need to increase your budget or at least buy second hand.
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| Too bad stupid isn't painful. |
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Cheers N1c0,
The best advice is to avoid getting anywhere near the hobby, it is addictive.  But obviously, it is too late now for you. You will just have to make the best of it.
A few opinions from me, Plummet.
Keeping the price down?
Weight needs power. Power needs heavier batteries (if you are going electric that is) and bigger motors and this means more expensive. So you want a light weight plane.
BUT people say that it is easier to learn on a larger, more stable model that is less effected by wind. You will have to compromise.
You say you want to build from scratch. Do you mean from a kit, or from plans? Plans can be cheap or free. However you can spend quite a bit buying materials - but then again you will probably have loads of stuff spare to build your next one. (Sorry, remember the addiction, there WILL be a next one.) Of course, a smaller lighter model needs less materials,
You say that you want to build a foam based model. Many of these have simple flat plate wings, which are (probably) less aerodynamically efficient, and so the model must fly faster in order to stay up. A proper aerofoil wing, especially a nice thick one, will give you a slower aircraft, that may be easier to learn on.
Might you consider balsa bashing (and thus get one up on Steve Honour  )? If so, then have a look at
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/news/a...e.asp?a=4919
I have just built a couple of these. (One for me, one for Flappit, my wife  ) It is very easy to fly, is small and lightweight, and the plans are available - someone might just have an old copy of the magazine it was in that you could steal them from, or you could buy them from the website. (I am not going to suggest that you photocopy them, because that is naughty, breaks copyright, and anyway, I have found that some copy shops will refuse to do them because of this. What a give away.)
It is a nice cheap design to build because it can use a small cheap motor. (It does need reasonable sized batteries to get the C of G right without adding lead.) The wing is just 36" span, so all the spars sheeting etc are the same length as stock balsa, which is nice.
If you are nervous about trying to build it then I am sure that I, and others would be happy to advise.
Good Luck, Have Fun.
Plummet
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[ Edited by: plummet on 28/01/2010 13:20:33 ] |
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Thanks for the replies, its certainly given me something to think about.
As for "balsa bashing" I had thought about balsa (but I assumed maybe incorrectly that if it were to crash it would be a crash that would probably end my flying experience quite quickly as opposed to a foam kit that can take more punishment and might be more easily repaired), I would be interested in a basla build (not to irk you steve :S) but because im currently about to start my second year in carpentry and joinery so I do have a fair bit of experience about wood techniques.
Either way my choice is limited to my budget and I do not have the option of increasing my budget because I simply cant afford to at the moment 
To answer one of your questions Plummet (nice choice of name) I would prefer scratch built if possible (again I assumed scratch built could be cheaper)
I did forget to mention I have managed to obtain a few thousand plans for foam planes (which is why I thought the foam idea was worth following) but without instructions I wasnt sure id be able to make a functional plane.
Plummet: Just out of interest could you give me a ball park figure for the cost of that plane you mentioned (it does remind me of the super mini cub) which Ive read is a good trainer.
I wouldnt be too bothered if I crashed a cheap machine in the attempt of learning to fly rather than crashing something that took a lot longer or cost more to produce. I feel the proper option would be to get a decent electrical kit I would be able to reuse in different scratch built models so I could start with something simple and work my way up to more advanced and tricker to fly models later on (when more money would be availible)
Of course I am completely in the dark here so the more information I get the better, so thanks again for all the input so far :)
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Costs? I am guessing - I have a fair stock of balsa, so I have not bought one model's worth all in one go. My guesses are very approximate.
Perhaps £15 to £20 for the balsa. If you buy sheets and cut your own strips from it then it will be cheaper in the long run.
Then you need a bit of piano wire for the undercarriage, control horns for the rudder, elevator, and ailerons.
You need 4 small servos.
Ply in various thicknesses. Only a small amount is needed, so you will have plenty left over. Some of this is silly thin stuff.
Covering. It wants to be light stuff. One roll should be enough, but the more colours the prettier.
Various screws for the undercarriage, mounting the motor, and for the aileron servo hatches. (Google for Modelfixings becaise it can be hard to buy very small screws on the high street, and they can be pricey when sold in ones and twos in the model shops.)
Then there is the radio receiver, the motor, and the batteries. (I say batteries, because it can take some time for a lipo battery to recharge, so it is good to have more than one, so that you can get more flights in.
Of course you will need a transmitter, and a lipo charger as well.
Hope this helps.
Plummet
p.s. It was this model that I fitted skis to. There are partial pictures of in on the recent thread "Snow". The nose shape is non-standard because my batteries are smaller than ideal, so I extended the nose to balance it. For Flappit's model I have made the tailplane and fin from stripwood rather than sheet in order to lighten the tail end. She is going to cover hers (when she has the time and courage, so I cannot usefully report on these changes yet.
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Quote:
Originally posted by plummet
lighten the tail end. She is going to cover hers (when she has the time and courage,
in pink? 
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Thanks for getting back to me on this..
So.. what do you think would be a rough overall cost for all the above materials (ill go through the list later today and see what i prices i can get for all of that)
I guess i also need to think about tools, although i do have a good supply of traditional hand tools for woodworking im pretty certain i will need other types.
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I was just thinking.. regardless of the material type build i use.. (be it balsa or foam) i will still need the same kind of electronics, so if i can compile a list of electrical parts i need, i can price that up and see how much that comes to before i decide on the material i use.
obviously being completely in the dark about this aspect of rc planes i was hoping someone can give me a detailed list of types of electrical components i should try and get. rather than go through other sites/threads trying to piece together a list where i might pick out various parts that may be too expensive/not good enough for the job
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Its hard to say what you will need as it does depend on the size of the plane.
Flight Battery pack (3 lipo maybe)
Electronic Speed Controller (ESC)
Brushless Motor
Servos (normal 3-4 of them)
The following bits dont depend on the plane:
Transmitter
Transmitter battery and charger
Receiver
Flight pack charger
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| Too bad stupid isn't painful. |
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ok well ive looked through some of the plans i have here and this seems to be the better option due to its wing placement and ease of build..
would they be suitable?
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I would recommend one of these:-
http://robotbirds.com/catalog/produ...ucts_id=1670
If you talk to Robotbirds they will recommend a suitable power train. If you ask for low price items, they have plenty of choice.
What you need is something that will bounce! Also, spend plenty of time on the sim.
Good luck!
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Hi Brian, thanks for the reply...
Id rather build my own model than pay £40 for a yellow eye sore lol (no offence meant), ive only got £100 to spend on this hobby at the moment and id rather buy materials i can possibly make a few models from and thereby have one beginner and one more slighty harder model to fly, using depron was my preference or balsa if need be.
I would really like to scratch build rather than spend money on a kit.
thanks anyway though :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by giskard
in pink?
Actually, no. SHE chose fetching shades of purple and orange. I am saying nothing.
P
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Hi again folks,...
Well i managed to find yet another plan of a ufo type plane which seems quite simple to build, ive also managed to get hold of a few motors and a NiMH 650mAh 7.2v 6 cell battery which i was hoping i could use in the build.
ive been looking up materials and found a supplier of depron in the uk that sells sheets of White Depron
3mm
1000 x 700mm
4 x Sheets
£10.00
so that should be enough to make a few different models,
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this model is about 535mm in diameter or 21inches in old money
the person the plans belong to has given permission for me to build using them, but i wont be able to get detailed instructions in its build so i was hoping some people here might be able to advise me on details when the time comes.
all thats left to do now is find some half decent radio gear and a few odds and ends like a prop, charger, esc, etc
what do you guys think of the flyability of this model ufo
thanks
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no this model can fly outside, and thats what im after and i really dont want to buy a kit when im quite able to build one from scratch :)
but thanks for the input, i might get this thread moved to the build section now that ive noticed there is one  
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You may not realise that there are several different types of foam used for model aircraft
1) Expanded polystyrene. This has large granules and breaks into many pieces in a crash. Not recommended
2) Depron. This is available in fine grain smooth sheets of various thickness. Excellent for indoor aerobatic planes but is rather brittle. Not recommended
3) Blue foam. This is used in building insulation and is available in blocks. It has a fine grain and can be carved and sanded, is often used for indoor scale models. Your pictures may be this type of foam. Like Depron it is rather brittle and not recommended
4) EPP foam. This looks a bit like expanded polystyrene but is very resilient and withstands crashes very well. It is rather flexible so needs stiffening with carbon fibre. This is the only type of foam I would recommend to a beginner. Multiplex kits use Elapor which is a sort of moulded EPP. EPP sheet can be obtained from Flying Wings
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yes i did see that theres over 8 types of foam and ive done a fair bit of reading up on thier properties but thanks for the heads up, im glad you mentioned it because it was a concern i had, ive managed to find some epp from a good source for quite cheap but of course ill check out the place you suggested incase theres a better offer to be had.
thanks for the information.
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You ask about the flyability of the circular model you pictured. A model like this has to be 'flown' at all times, as it has no natural stability. Not really suitable to learn on.
Look for a more traditional design, preferably with a little dihedral, and with a generous wing area, which will fly more slowly. Also it is easier to learn take-off from the ground, rather than hand-launch, especially if you have no one with you.
I appreciate that you want to go for scratchbuild, but one of the advantages of a kit or an ARTF model is that by and large the trimming is sorted, the c/g position has been proved, and the ratios between the various flying surfaces has been thoroughly tested. Hence you are just that bit less likely to have to build another plane for your second flight!
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ok well thats a good comment i can see it would difficult to fly and you have clarified that, but I really cannot afford to pay so much for an artf model at the moment..
thanks for the information, ill just have to persevere and find a more stable flight model and go from that, i dont really care that it will be unpainted or ugly to some people, all i want to do is make a fairly indestructible plane that ill be able to at least have a go at teaching myself with and be able build myself..
ive come across some excellent sites that detail the construction of some simple planes which have the flight characteristics you described so ill probably follow the website and build something which to me is the interesting part, i would just stick to rc model making but of course the fact that you end up with something thats (hopefully) flyable at the end is just icing on the cake :)
i fully understand the point you make and if money wasnt such an issue id be following your advice to the letter, but since i can make several models for the same price as an artf kit i might as well learn to build from scratch and at least get some joy out of this hobby rather than making a plane from an artf kit ill no doubt crash anyway lol
anyways thanks again brian.. just a shame i cant download your mind, would save some wear and tear on my fingers :)
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[ Edited by: n1c0 on 29/01/2010 13:43:49 ] |
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